Curse

HigherMinion · Apr 07, 2011, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navis

I run these two ele builds and I haven't seen them in your guide or in the pending modifications:

The Ether Prism Healer works well in areas with a lot of enchantment removal and when you don't want to dedicate a necro to healing (N/Rt healer is more reliable imho).

The Ward Against Harm ele shines in areas with a lot of fire AoE (Sacnoth Valley, Kathandrax Dungeon, Fire Forest in FoW, etc) but is good everywhere else since heroes tend to clump together at all times. I've put a lot of energy management here, not all will be necessary depending on the rest of the bar (could be /Me for a different kind of e-management).

No wards are in meta because they're not that helpful when you have targeted prots, weapon of warding, etc. Only good ward is Ward of Stability for Jotun dungeon.

Ether Prism is ok, but really; in areas with enchant removal, I would micro my ER hero to cover ench itself. If it's heavy enchant removal, take Dunkoro. he pro. Taking two spirits on one bar is pointless when you're probably using a SoS rit too. You can give them Rt/Me for rupt e-management, etc.

Navis · Apr 07, 2011, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

No wards are in meta because they're not that helpful when you have targeted prots.

When a Flowstone elemental is about to drop a Savannah's Heat on your party, no amount of targeted prots will work better than WaH. Heroes will cast their wards as soon as combat begins, whereas they cast targeted prots only AFTER you start taking damage. Now maybe you will answer that you can flag heroes apart, micro-precast prots, etc. Well for people who don't want to have to do everything themselves, WaH is a very good defensive spell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Taking two spirits on one bar is pointless when you're probably using a SoS rit too. You can give them Rt/Me for rupt e-management, etc.

Taking two spirits on one bar is pointless? Well, if both spirits have interesting effect, and you have the energy to cast them, why not use them

/Me e-manaagement is all good, but what happens when you face W/R/P mobs?

Also, if you're gonna discuss why bars shouldn't be included in meta because there are others that work better, then you can remove 90% of what is in the main post.

HigherMinion · Apr 07, 2011, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navis

When a Flowstone elemental is about to drop a Savannah's Heat on your party, no amount of targeted prots will work better than WaH. Heroes will cast their wards as soon as combat begins, whereas they cast targeted prots only AFTER you start taking damage. Now maybe you will answer that you can flag heroes apart, micro-precast prots, etc. Well for people who don't want to have to do everything themselves, WaH is a very good defensive spell.

You don't have to flag your heroes, although it is always advised if facing several Flowstones. No; all you need for lazyway is one copy of Prot Spirit, SoA and one or two party-heals. Rarely will all 7 heroes be hit, or for long.

Wards are slow, clunky and promote bad play. However, that isn't always what Meta builds try to avoid, but on this occasion Wards are still ignored.

Quote:

Taking two spirits on one bar is pointless? Well, if both spirits have interesting effect, and you have the energy to cast them, why not use them

/Me e-manaagement is all good, but what happens when you face W/R/P mobs?

Also, if you're gonna discuss why bars shouldn't be included in meta because there are others that work better, then you can remove 90% of what is in the main post.

Life is good, but you can't really depend on it unless your fights take 15~ seconds or so. Generally not the case unless you pre-cast it. It's an unreliable source of heal, generally for the end of a fight where it doesn't matter. The other spirit's effect is pretty bad.

Navis · Apr 07, 2011, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Wards are slow, clunky and promote bad play. However, that isn't always what Meta builds try to avoid, but on this occasion Wards are still ignored.

What make wards slow and clunky

Is it because you can't move them? Well, then what about spirits on heroes (who don't have access to Summon Spirits)? Are they slow, clunky and promoting bad play? Anyway, go to Sacnoth Valley with just PS, SoA and two party heals, and go fight the Burning Spirit groups. Then try again with Ward Against Harm. Then see for yourself if wards are bad. Of course this is a specific location where the ward will really shine, but you face fire AoE against multiple foes, so if you want/need to take an elementalist hero with you, you might as well make him run WaH.

Of course I'm not saying they are the best build out there, given the choice I will NEVER take and elementalist hero with me, but we are just trying to suggest decent builds for each profession here, as far as I've understood.

FoxBat · Apr 07, 2011, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I only bring life for minion healing :/ otherwise rejuv all the way. If you aren't running offensive spirits for some reson though, you do need a reliable spirit light powerer, which life/recovery do.

Anyone watch heroes actually use flail? I hear they won't even try unless target is KD'd. And phys heroes tend to waste alot of time running between targets, so the movement reduction can be a real liability. Seems like dervish heroes with HoF and an enchant boost would be better "warriors" half the time...

Water elites are pretty meh specially for heroes, so WaH is ok, so is MoI. Might just go with Elemental Attunement and let them spam deep freeze and maelstrom.

Edit: don't get the ward hate. Yeah, they aren't often used reliably, their effects are sometimes questionable, but people used to bring the earth ele hench just for the wards. As mentioned the questionable part is you're using an ele at all, but if you are, might as well get some milage out of it. Ward vs melee is worth a single slot on an earth ele, and the water elites are bad enough that ward vs harm is an OK choice vs fire. A pretty good one actually before we had panic to deal with places like sacnoth and hell's.

AndrewSX · Apr 07, 2011, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Apart that ward are quite useless and plenty of drawbacks, a hero will never use it worthy(like happens to spirits anyway:but they so OP that u can ignore that...).

1-The problem ins't "Heroes balls toghether, let's put a ward on them" is that if u put a ward, they will try to stay in as much as possible. Which means that you'll surely be protected against Sh and SF, but your heroes will take it for amolst the full duration (and almost all heroes will do).
2-Why use wards when u can:-use imbagon or meele to keep up as much as u can SY!(+100AR)?I know that is viable for a little part of prof combinations(and played by human), but still...-As said, if u can't use SY!, prots>wards(shelter is an example, but if most of team is protted Spirit bond and Prot spirit are awesome).
3-As for spirits, is matter of field placement, cause wards are (atm) static. If they are dinamic(centered around caster, for example), they could be a little more desiderable. Generally heroes will cast wards(like spirits) quite random, compared to the human behaviour(4 spirits summoned all times you face a mob, even if alone, and then not ready when you'll face a large group).
4-Apart all this....how many times you'll face so much fire dmg to justify taking an elite slot for a ward? Kath, the burning forest in sacnot valley, and myba some place in nf with ruby djiins.

Alathin · Jun 07, 2011, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Looks amazing so far. Keep up the great work.

LexTalionis · Jun 24, 2011, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

Apart that ward are quite useless and plenty of drawbacks, a hero will never use it worthy(like happens to spirits anyway:but they so OP that u can ignore that...).

1-The problem ins't "Heroes balls toghether, let's put a ward on them" is that if u put a ward, they will try to stay in as much as possible. Which means that you'll surely be protected against Sh and SF, but your heroes will take it for amolst the full duration (and almost all heroes will do).
2-Why use wards when u can:-use imbagon or meele to keep up as much as u can SY!(+100AR)?I know that is viable for a little part of prof combinations(and played by human), but still...-As said, if u can't use SY!, prots>wards(shelter is an example, but if most of team is protted Spirit bond and Prot spirit are awesome).
3-As for spirits, is matter of field placement, cause wards are (atm) static. If they are dinamic(centered around caster, for example), they could be a little more desiderable. Generally heroes will cast wards(like spirits) quite random, compared to the human behaviour(4 spirits summoned all times you face a mob, even if alone, and then not ready when you'll face a large group).
4-Apart all this....how many times you'll face so much fire dmg to justify taking an elite slot for a ward? Kath, the burning forest in sacnot valley, and myba some place in nf with ruby djiins.

Ward of Stability is okay. Wards work best with EBSoH/EBSoW anyway. Ward Against Foes can be occasionally useful in PvE. The main thing is that they're unremovable and have no counters, so they're good versus metagame enemy builds like Mallyx.

That being said, in nearly any situation where you'd use Ward Against Harm, I think you'd prevent more damage if you just used Technobabble and Complicate. I don't even know why people still complain about Ruby djinns, the only times they're seriously annoying is when they're with Roaring Ethers and that's definitely more because of the Ethers than the Djinns.

@the OP: Don't leave out Banishing Strike. It should be part of the Dervish Meta.

AndrewSX · Jun 24, 2011, 06:53 AM // 06:53

@ Lex:
Yes, i'm not against wards by themselves, but what their use product: you and all your team will most likelly ball nicely in it. And i'm not sure that a similar exposure to -GOREDENGINE- AoE dmg from HM mobs is really worth using those. I mean, if you use ward against elements when facing eles you're more resilient to their dmg, but they can hit the whole team toghether (and for ares like vabbi, if there are some roaring ether-Esurge- around, armor vs ele is useless, and balling the team will most likely have bad results for your hp).
Is just a "what you gain in ward" vs. "what you lose for stay all in ward".
And generally i think the latter wins.

LexTalionis · Jun 24, 2011, 10:33 AM // 10:33

But I already said - I generally don't have that problem because prevention is a lot better than mitigation or cure:

If it's one target with huge AoE damage, lock a mesmer on it or hit it with PI.

If it's a small group with some things that do huge AoE damage in it, lock a mesmer on each troublesome spellcaster and open with Technobabble into mistrusts.

If it's a large group of whatever, Open with EVAS, hit the entire thing with Technobabble and follow up with panic.

If it's a large group of spread out elementalists doing huge damage AoEs, please learn how to pull properly.

In any situation where I'd even consider bringing ward against harm just because it could protect my party against fire (I assume you want the anti-fire properties because if I just wanted 24 armour, it'd be inferior to EBSoC and if my party is going to sit still inside a ward getting hit by wards, I already run "Stand your ground!" and armour bonuses don't stack beyond 25.), I'd have to quantify running an entire ele with heavy water magic investment over using a shutdown mesmer or soul twister or FD mesmer or pretty much any other class that can shut down, cripple or deal with entire packs of casters. Heck, if it HAD to be an elementalist, I'd even prefer Thunderclap over Ward against Harm.

Wards in general can be okay, but I believe Ward against Harm is a very silly skill.

moenbase · Jun 24, 2011, 08:16 PM // 20:16

I have to say, if these builds on the first page are actually working like they intended to. Then I find it very nicely putted together actually. I wonder why some people are negative about it.

It's been a long time since I played GW. About 3-4 years ago. From what I remember is that most missions and areas require different team setups. And some skills are highly recommended for certain areas/missions. Especially the end-game ones.
I mean, I guess the team setups isn't just a cookie cutter build for every situation. Please, do tell me if i'm wrong though.

Anyway. It has usefull information for me. When I quited GW, there wasn't much info available yet on what skills actually work on heroes.

thetwistedboy · Jun 24, 2011, 09:04 PM // 21:04

I don't think Ward Against harm is too bad, it was very nice when I decided to test it out. I just think I needs to get moved to Earth Magic. All the other wards are there and there aren't many useful skills in Water Magic beyond Maelstrom(Panic is better imo) and Deep Freeze(not necessary very often).

AndrewSX · Jun 24, 2011, 10:20 PM // 22:20

OT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetwistedboy

I just think I needs to get moved to Earth Magic. All the other wards are there and

Quote:

get moved to Earth Magic

Quote:

All the other wards are there

Quote:

Wards = Earth Magic

Can't agree more.

This is one of the things i'd really like to see if (hopefully anytime before gw2 comes out...) ele gets a overhaul. And Mind blast to Estorage too.

/End OT.

my pink phone · Jul 23, 2011, 12:23 PM // 12:23

rly good job but its possible to update that awesome hero meta thread?

Warrior Of The Toon · Aug 22, 2011, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Great guide, although I've not tried any of it yet it's been very informative. Have there been any updates breaking these builds since it was last edited in March?

Jette Antral · Sep 21, 2011, 01:47 AM // 01:47

This is helpful. I'll be directing my drug-addled friends with no game experience here when they need help. You've saved me a lot of time.

Showtime · Sep 21, 2011, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Anyone have a guide for weapon combos to use with each type in hm? Mostly want to see if anyone tested shield and spears on caster heros before I invest time into it. Was using 40/40 for smite monks and mesmers, and staffs on rits, but want to try something else if feasible.

Net The Nabi · Sep 21, 2011, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Showtime

Anyone have a guide for weapon combos to use with each type in hm? Mostly want to see if anyone tested shield and spears on caster heros before I invest time into it. Was using 40/40 for smite monks and mesmers, and staffs on rits, but want to try something else if feasible.

Important tip - If you're a melee character bringing splinter weapon is very useful, however, make sure all your none melee characters use staffs and 40/40s because the heroes will cast splinter on them aswell, which isn't as effective.

HigherMinion · Sep 21, 2011, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Net The Nabi

Important tip - If you're a melee character bringing splinter weapon is very useful, however, make sure all your none melee characters use staffs and 40/40s because the heroes will cast splinter on them aswell, which isn't as effective.

Still works. Whoever Splinter is cast on will autoattack before it runs out, it just won't be as spikey.

Kaida the Heartless · Dec 11, 2011, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Shield and spear works fine for just about any Hero other than a Minion Master because they need a large energy pool. A 40/40 set is still generally better though.